this country was built on as opposed to this idea that i'm going to gamble my way into wealth. which really, statistically, doesn't happen. >> okay, dave, stay where you are, we'll come back and talk more about this in detail. and obviously the fiscal cliff. we'll talk to two men on opposite sides of this, the executive director of stop gambling. i'm going to start with you, terry rich, you obviously run one of the big lotteries in america. you obviously heard what dave said, they don't like it, a tax on the poor, and really it should just be cancelled. >> you know, as he said that, i would just add one word, it is opti optional revenue, people don't have to play. and as lotteries work across the country under great leadership of the governor and legislature, who wouldn't allow, as you say, preying on the poor, it is important that we continue to talk about the lottery.